Yakkstr

Want to know why I have a problem with religion?

rush limbaugh said, "You cannot believe in the God of Creation and believe manmade global warming. You just can’t. You might run around and say, “I don’t want to destroy God’s creation.” God’s laughing at you. " source

alienated said, "Some think Conservatives, who are often times Christians (especially in the minds of Liberals), do not care about the earth because we talk about heaven so much. That could be somewhat true, but I do think the converse is true: Liberals want to make the best of this world because they think this is all there is. The thing that amuses Conservatives, about Liberals, is they are arrogant enough to think that humans can destroy the world."

See the problem? Of course, he's wrong. One important detail, people say "destroy the world", but we mean different things by that. Those of us concerned about the environment are concerned about the future of humanity. We most certainly can destroy civilization as we know it by setting off every nuclear bomb. That's an extreme, but there is also a very real possibility that we'll make human existence miserable.

But, if one believes that Jesus is coming back, possibly soon, and bring with it final judgement, then why worry about the long term health of our environment? Alien basically says this, and that's a serious problem don't you think?

To take some old book and conclude that we don't have to worry about the long term health of the environment because of some vague passages, with no evidence other than an absolute evidence free belief in the inerrancy of that old book. If this view is common, and it is, it most certainly is a negative for our society. Don't you think?

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grapekoolaid said about 1 year ago ...

Perhaps he stands outside with a sign that reads, "The end is near" while he's not posting and commenting on here. Or sitting in his house in his Sunday best waiting for the rapture.

If he stops posting after May 21st, then we all know what happened. ;)

creativewoman said about 1 year ago ...

God gave man free will, so he certainly can destroy the world. Religion to me is doctrine. Rules and rituals. On the other hand, faith is what comes from the inside as you have a personal relationship with God.

I'm not crazy about trusting the rantings of Rush Limbaugh on anything.

CW

reckoner said about 1 year ago ...

that's an interesting distinction cw. I think that's one of my pet peeves too, that people use the same word to mean different things. What I have a problem with is the absolute doctrine of an old book. How should I describe this to be less offensive?

bluegum said about 1 year ago ...

It's ok in 2011 to come out of the closet Reck .

Blue.

creativewoman said about 1 year ago ...

What do you believe then?

CW

reckoner said about 1 year ago ...

that's a big question ;) I'm going to start posting that stuff. For now it's easier to say what bothers me.

I don't believe the argument "we should do xyz because this old book says so" is a valid argument for major issues in our society.

creativewoman said about 1 year ago ...

I'll be interested to read those posts. :-) It seems you and I might have to agree to disagree on that big old book because I believe it to be true.

creativewoman said about 1 year ago ...

Just one more thing ...

When I was speaking of doctrine, I meant to say church doctrine as in places such as the Catholic church. Over the centuries they have created their own interpretations and rules and expect you to follow them. I don't believe in those. If it's not in that big old book, I really don't think the voice of religious leaders can ever over ride it. That's where I have a problem with religion. That's where I have the distinction of faith.

CW

reckoner said about 1 year ago ...

There are two issues hear, the validity of old books, and whether one persons interpretation of some old book is a good argument for public policy. The first one fascinates me, but the latter is what affects me in a negative way.

Everyone interprets it differently, a whole bunch of really smart believers who have spent their lives studying the bible can't decide if genesis is literal or not. Given these sorts of problems I don't think one can use what the bible says as a good argument for some public policy that they want our government to carry out. like a ban on stem cell research.

How do you feel about that?

creativewoman said about 1 year ago ...

I think politicians use any argument they can to promote their proposed policy as do some journalists. In other words, I don't think they are always sincere in their claims. Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck for instance are simply inflammatory. All they are after is ratings. I don't even listen to them at all. A couple of times was enough. They simply use the Bible to get votes and/or ratings.

I have seen documentaries on the History Channel, National Geographic, and the Science Channel that have investigated the stories of the Bible. I believe there is sufficient proof to validate many of the stories.

As far as stem cells go, I don't have a firm grasp of the technology used to harvest them. If they could harvest them in a way other than aborted babies, I would be all for it. Is that the only way?

I hope I haven't upset you. That is not my intention.

CW

reckoner said about 1 year ago ...

You're not upsetting me at all, I'm thrilled to hear your thoughts.

The bible doesnt say anything about abortion or when a human life is created. Some stem cells require fertilizing an egg and then harvesting the stem cells as they grow. Btw, we also discard fertilized eggs in fertility clinics, but you don't hear too many people complain about that for some reason.

creativewoman said about 1 year ago ...

I could probably go for the eggs being donated from fertility clinics only because I hate to see them destroyed. God wants us to love others as we love ourselves. If the option for donating them were available I think that would be great. And let me say that as long as abortion is legal, I think those stem sells should be used. That does not mean I agree with abortion at all. However, if we are going to continue abortion, let's look at it like organ donation to save lives as far as stem cells go.

I might also note that even though I was having a hard time conceiving, I never went through invitro fertilization because I knew I could not make a choice on which eggs to keep and which to discard once they were fertilized. In my eyes they would have all been my children. I didn't want to end up with sextuplets. So, I never went through the process.

Wouldn't it be great if they donated those fertilized eggs they discard to women like me? .... but that's off topic.

CW

expendable said about 1 year ago ...

i've always liked "How it Happened" by Issac Asimov.

sadsack said about 1 year ago ...

CW's distinction between religion and faith is perfect. Religion makes God into a likeness of man...maybe a man we wouldn't want to know. But God, obviously, if he exists, has to be better that the best human being...he's not going to be so petty as to get after you if you miss Sunday mass or don't follow the prescribed rituals. I refuse to believe in such a small minded God.

However in my mind the universe is far too complex and far too beautiful to have come into existence randomly. There has to have been a planner, a creator. In the words of Paul Davies,'How did something so immensely complicated, so finessed,so exquisitely clever, come into being all on its own?" he was talking of a single living cell. How much more complex a whole organism, the whole earth, the whole universe?

Fred Hoyle, the British astronomer likened the odds against the spontaneously of life as akin to a whirlwind sweeping through a junkyard and producing a fully functional Boeing 747. Most of us don't feel God's presence as much in a man-made church as in the great outdoors He has created. Don't you sometimes feel overwhelmed when you are on a sun-kissed mountainside or by the seaside?

reckoner said about 1 year ago ...

"However in my mind the universe is far too complex and far too beautiful to have come into existence randomly. There has to have been a planner, a creator"

In my mind the creator is far too copmlex and far too beautiful to have come into existence randomly. There has to have been a CreateorCreator ;)

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